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C00002 00002	∂16-Jan-87  0412	mcvax!ux63.bath.ac.uk!ma_jap@seismo.CSS.GOV 	delft minutes  
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Subject: delft minutes

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.ps 14
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\fBMinutes of EuLISP-XIV, Delft, 870105\fP
.ps 10
.vs 12

\fBAttendees\fP\*[1\*]
.(f
\*[1\*]Secretary's Note: The general lack of funding available to the
participants, combined with the rail strike in France, severely
affected the number of people able to attend.  It was therefore
decided to curtail the meeting to one day.
.)f

.nf
Je\*'ro\*↑me Chailloux, INRIA, Paris (JC)
Jan van Katwijk, University of Technology, Delft (JvK)
Timm Krumnack, Krupps-Atlas Elektronik, Bremen (TK)
Julian Padget, University of Bath (JAP)
Willem van der Poel, University of Technology, Delft (WvdP)

\fBAgenda\fP

1.	Minutes of Eulisp-XIII (Paris)
2.	Report on X3J13 meeting in Dallas
3.	Funding
4.	Future meetings
5.	Status of national standards efforts
6.	Timescales/Objectives
.fi

.fi
.ce
\fIMinutes of Eulisp-XIII\fP

JC had not received these despite their having been circulated on
the eulisp mailing list.  JAP reported that he had got feedback from
several people on the December minutes, including Dick Gabriel, Mario
Furnari and Roland Rehmnert.

.ce
\fIReport on X3J13 in Dallas\fP

Two supportng documents were received: the proposed X3J13 charter and
the minutes of the Dallas meeting.  X3J13 has identified a number of
task groups and set up some of those task groups.  It was noted that
amongst the unconstituted groups was the one for ISO interaction.

The various officers of X3J13 were noted: Chairman - Bob Mathis,
Vice-Chairman - Guy Steele, International representative - Dick
Gabriel, Secretary - Mary van Deusen, Vocabulary: Bill Scherlis,
Editors: Dick Gabriel and Will Clinger.

The next meeting of X3J13 will take place in Palo Alto over 17-19
March.

.ce
\fIFunding\fP

JC reported that the EEC has given approval for suppport to this
standardisation activity and that INRIA will act as banker.  However
the official announcement has not yet been received by INRIA and no
support can be given until this has happened.  The mechanism should
certainly be in place by the March meeting.

.ce
\fIFuture Meetings\fP

In view of the cost of attending meetings (although this may be
ameliorated to a certain extent soon) and, more importantly the need
for more time to work in between meetings, it was proposed that EuLISP
should move to a two month cycle starting immediately.  Therefore, the
next meeting of EuLISP will be in March.  In the previous minutes it
had been proposed to hold the March meeting in Italy.  It was agreed
that we should continue with the same schedule of locations and
therefore the next meeting will be held in Paris at IRCAM for 2 days
on March 2\*[nd\*]/3\*[rd\*]

.ce
\fIStatus of national standards efforts\fP

JAP reported that the last meeting of BSI/IST/5 (Programming
Languages) had agreed to the formation of a LISP panel.  JAP has been
nominated as the convenor.

.ce
\fITimescales/Objectives\fP

There was a long discussion about the need and subsequently the
strategy for building trial implemenations of the different levels of
the EuLISP proposal.  There appear to be two options:
.ip (i)
define in Common LISP, using the package system to obtain the
necessary security/visibility to make the scheme work.  This would be
good because it may be relatively portable and also it would make the
results easily accessible to industry.  It is also rather hard because
of the difficulty of producing a compiler in such an environment.
.ip (ii)
define in Scheme.  The type system is not a fundamental mechanism and
could be built on top of Scheme.  Again there are attractions because
of the portability of Scheme code and the relatively wide availability
of Scheme implementations.  Scheme also has the sound semantic base
that the EuLISP proposal requires rather than having to construct it
as would be necessary in a CL based system.  The detraction from using
Scheme is the subsequent accessibility of the system to industry where
the only major user of Scheme is Texas Instruments.
.lp
The consensus was that it should be possible to prototype most of the
EuLISP ideas in about a year given the appropriate environment and
resources.
.pp
To make progress on the above matter a much more detailed definition
of the language levels is necessary.  To this end it was agreed that
Christian Queinnec, Herbert Stoyan and JAP will work on such a
document with the intention of having a significant strawman
completed in time for the March meeting.

.ce
\fIFINIS - 1730\fP

.ce
\fIOutstanding Action Items\fP

Christian Queinnec will add macro expansion to the level0 interpreter

JAP will describe the interpreter outlined at the December meeting in
more detail

JAP to mail Clinger on LISP/VM macro expansion strategy

.ce
\fINew Action Items\fP

Herbert Stoyan, Christian Queinnec and JAP to collaborate on producing
a defining document for level0/1 for the March meeting.






padget@RAND-UNIX/su
Delft Meeting

I read the minutes, and I think there is an important factual error.
The ``editors'' group is the ISO interaction group. That is, the ISO
delegation is intended to be Mathis, Clinger, and I; Clinger and I are
the nominated people for the ISO project editor position. Aside from
the object-oriented programming specification, which I am helping to write,
Clinger and I are not involved in any ANSI Common Lisp work, only ISO work
(moving Common Lisp in the proper direction).

So I believe the statement that the ISO interaction group is unconstituted
is incorrect.
			-rpg-